defender of truth

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Posts by defender of truth

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  754

  Theists, why does God allow suffering..

  by The Quiet One in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  ..specifically, the suffering of animals.

  you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.

  i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.

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  defender of truth

  I was replying to what you said to Caedes. Sorry if I was unclear.

  Just saying what I thought, I'm not having a go at you.

  I'll leave you to think, then.
  
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  754

  Theists, why does God allow suffering..

  by The Quiet One in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  ..specifically, the suffering of animals.

  you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.

  i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.

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  defender of truth

  Fisherman: Perhaps the Bible God does not exist, and the Bible's description of his qualities are nothing more than the imaginings of men who died a very long time ago?

  Perhaps the god you believe in did not curse anything after any kind of 'fall' due to any kind of 'sin', and he never designed anything in the first place.

  Once you give up fighting to reconcile endless suffering, going back millions of years into the past before anybody had 'sinned', with the concept of a loving and just higher being that designed it all..

  Then everything starts to make sense. Don't ignore evidence and logic just because you want to believe something. That's all.
  
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  57

  IMPORTANT NEWS: ABC News' Nightline will air a segment about the Watchtower (JWs) Wednesday morning at 12:35 a.m. EST

  by AndersonsInfo in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  important news:.

  here in the united states, on wednesday morning, march 11th at 12:35 a.m., est, barring any breaking news the day before, the program, nightline, will air as their lead story a 9-minute segment about the watchtower (jehovah's witnesses).

  the program is 30 minutes long and this segment is only one part of the show.

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  defender of truth

  http://abc.go.com/shows/nightline/listing/2015-03/12-nightline-031215-former-jehovahs-witness-takes-on-church-over-sex-abuse-allegations
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  91

  ABC's report on child abuse

  by Joyzabel in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  nice job!

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  defender of truth

  http://abc.go.com/shows/nightline/listing/2015-03/12-nightline-031215-former-jehovahs-witness-takes-on-church-over-sex-abuse-allegations
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  754

  Theists, why does God allow suffering..

  by The Quiet One in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  ..specifically, the suffering of animals.

  you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.

  i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.

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  defender of truth

  Whenindoubt, I hope you respond to my post, those examples should prove that predation and suffering predated 'sin'.
  
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  754

  Theists, why does God allow suffering..

  by The Quiet One in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  ..specifically, the suffering of animals.

  you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.

  i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.

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  2. 
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  defender of truth

  Whenindoubt said:
  "Whether man sins against man,
  or the animal kingdom against each other, or man against animal,
  vegetation, water, earth, or air, is an inherited trait by sin. Therefore sin continues..."
  
  You seem to keep saying that animal suffering
  (specifically that of animals harming and killing each other in various ways)
  only happens because the world and all those living on it are either 'sinful', or affected by Sin.
  
  If 'sin' is the answer, then why does evidence exist that animals hurt and killed each other millions of years ago, long before mankind supposedly brought sin into the world?
  Here are two examples for you, but then you'll have to do your own research:
  
  "Entelodonts lived in the forests and plains where they were the apex predatorsof North America's early Miocene and Oligocene, consuming carrion and live animals and rounding off their diets with plants and tubers.
  
  They would have hunted large animals, like the cow-sized artiodactyl Eporeodon major, and the sheep-sized cameloid Poebrotherium wilsoni, dispatching them with a bite from their jaws.
  Some fossil remains of these other animals have been found with the bite marks of entelodonts on them."
  "Entelodonts, sometimes nicknamed hell pigs or terminator pigs, are an extinct family of pig-like omnivores endemic to forests and plains of North America, Europe, and Asia from the late Eoceneto early Miocene epochs (37.2—16.3 million years ago)"
  http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entelodont
  
  "Scientists working on fossils from Kangaroo Island, South Australia, have found eyes belonging to a giant 500 million-year-old marine predator that sat at the top of the earth's first food chain...
  It is considered to be at the top of the earliest food chains because of its large body size, formidable grasping claws at the front of its head and a circular mouth with razor-sharp serrations.
  Supporting evidence of this predator's dominance includes damage to contemporaneous trilobites, and even its fossilised poo (or coprolites) containing the remains of its prey...
  The existence of highly sophisticated, visual hunters within Cambrian communities would have accelerated the predator-prey 'arms race' that began during this important phase in early animal evolution over half a billion years ago."
  http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/12/111207132908.htm
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  754

  Theists, why does God allow suffering..

  by The Quiet One in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  ..specifically, the suffering of animals.

  you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.

  i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.

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  defender of truth

  [These will be the right posts. I,m sorry, Simon.]

  "any sovereign ruler or government entity can define what is good and what is bad, not you.
  The definition of good or bad can mean that he can drop a nuclear bomb destroying animals and people and whatever he wants."
  
  Fisherman...
  Your reply to the issue of how a loving God can allow animal suffering is that
  'God can kill or cause suffering to anyone he wants to, including innocent animals,
  therefore he is right to do so.' ?
  
  Apparently, to Fisherman and so many other believers..
  Might = Right.
  
  Strangely enough, most believers in the Biblical God would usually disagree with that philosophy
  (think of Hitler and his views of what was 'good' and 'bad'),
  except for when their concept of a 'just and loving' personal God is being questioned.
  
  'But God can kill any people or creatures that he wants to, because he is God.
  Whatever he does is right, and he has the right to do it because he has the authority!' is what believers (those who defend the concept of a loving God) essentially say.
  
  Matt Dillahunty responds to that argument much better than I could..
  (Please watch this, it's only 8 minutes)
  
  https://youtube.com/watch?v=ecYTgCrVhGM
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  754

  Theists, why does God allow suffering..

  by The Quiet One in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  ..specifically, the suffering of animals.

  you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.

  i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.

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  defender of truth

  The best defense that believers in a god that cares seem able to come up with is basically - animals suffer as a kind of collateral damage.

  Simple question: Is collateral damage ever just? Or is it always injust, and avoided when possible?

  With God, all things are possible?.. Apparently not if he can't avoid collateral damage.
  
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  76

  WT loses appeal in UK!!!!!!!

  by Viva la Vida in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  the wt lost its appeals regarding the charity commission inquiry.

  here is the ruling:.

  http://www.charity.tribunals.gov.uk/documents/decisions/watch-tower-ruling-03mar15.pdf.

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  defender of truth

  Thankyou again Simon.

  I've emailed Private Eye, no response from BBC yet. The story is covered again here:
  Lawandreligionuk article
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  9

  Child Abuse Trials

  by Garrett in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  i'm currently working something up to share with a few people.

  i was wondering if anyone knew the current number (estimation) of child abuse cases that are going on (that we know about)?

  i don't get much time to be on here right now but it seems that cases are sprouting everywhere.

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  defender of truth

  Look at the scan on this page, 27 in the UK..

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/147460003/more-child-abuse-issues-todays-sunday-times